I'm not going to give you a lot of guff, BUT...

At this point if people can't buy the fact that John Cena is, in fact, a really good pro wrestler, I don't know what to say to you. I just don't. Besides say, Rey Mysterio, I don't think there's been anyone close with the track record Cena has since 2006. There's definately stuff he dos that can annoy me on occasion. There's also stuff he could do better, but jesus, the arguments against him are awfully selective. I'm TOTALLY fine with the 'he's just not something I'm into argument'. That's an issue of taste, and I'm cool with that. But to say he's not GOOD, is flat out delusional at this point. I'm not INTO guys like Nigel McGuiness, but I'm not going around teling people he sucks. I'm just saying..

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I agree that he's good at SOME things. But I don't think he's good at other things. And the things that he's not good at are perhaps a little more obvious that they should be, hence why half the crowd boos him.

Cena gets booed because he's booked to be booed.

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That's just dumb reasoning, towney.

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General Insanity

How?

Its part of what makes Cena, Cena. They book him almost as the heel against opponents from the 'attitude' years. They even book him more as the heel again opponents who are MORE LIKE attitude era faces like Orton. At Bragging Rights, they even gave the baby face ref bump to Orton, not Cena.

This idea that the writers and Vince sit in the back panicking that not everyone cheers John Cena at this point is pretty laughable considering how he's been pushed. In fact, playing to the boo-ing is probably the smartest thing the WWE's done in years. They're usually trying to force-fit certain guys into roles they're not realy right for. With Cena, they went with the flow.

Booing Cena today is 'just something you do' at live shows now. As much as saying 'what' at shows was in 2002. Its a trained reaction.

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Then turn him heel.

He can't be both marketed to young children AND booked to be booed at the same time.

And as for booing being "just something to do", older males don't boo someone because it's the cool thing to do (children do that), they boo him because they genuinely don't like him.

Here's a ref bump to orton not cena from a Raw house show in moncton that I went to.

Older males boo him because it's the cool thing to do.


I wouldn't go so far as to say that he's "booked to be booed" as much as I'd say he's booked to "invoke emotion"(vintage Cole). Be it face heat or heel heat.

Just look at a few 2006 matches.

Cena vs RVD One Night Stand

This one I'd actually argue that he was booked as a heel. The match was so-so but the crowd reaction was one of the best I've ever seen.


Cena vs HHH WM22

Booked as a "face", but HHH really just used it as a stepping stone to turn himself face.

Cena vs Edge Unforgiven

While Cena got most of the cheers, this isn't the type of match you book someone in who you're desperate to get over as a pure babyface. Edge, the champ, in his hometown, in his own match.



John Cena is like the New York Yankees. He's not supposed to be a face or heel. He's just supposed to draw. It doesn't matter if you're watching to see him win, or see him get his @$$ kicked. Green money is still green.

That's why I always thought people who boo him are a little.... slow. Like they don't understand that paying a ticket to boo Cena costs the same price as paying a ticket to cheer him.

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Don't forget the next night. When they were in Montreal, for the beginning of the show, Cena was still booed and Edge was cheered, until the tables were turned, because Edge said things that made the fans real mad at him and not to mention the triple attack on Cena, when Cade & Murdoch join in, before DX came out. That was wild three years ago.

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I hate spambots. Corrupting Everything.

Why do that when:



?

There's no sense in turning Cena heel when he's already a heel to half of the crowd (if that's really even the case anymore)? Then he's just being unanimously boo'd. People buy pay per views to see him win and lose. Why change that? Why get kids to boo him when its a product marketed towards children? Turning him HEEL~ isn't going to change the fact that people genuinely don't like him.

He's booked to be boo'd by half of the crowd. He's booked to be cheered by the other half. I don't know why people are so adverse to the idea that they've got a guy that anyone (face or heel) can have a feud with, get some good matches from, get put over and have new things launched with. While I think the WWE may have had BETTER wrestlers at the top of their cards, they've never had as versatile a main event act as Cena.

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What's wrong with him getting unanimously booed? That was be awesome in my opinion.

He isn't as versatile as you say he is. Maybe as far as opponents go he is, but his matches tend to look the same in the end, mainly due to the "5 moves of doom" syndrome. Usually its Cena getting beatdown for 15 minutes, then he comes back with the same old winning routine, followed by a) an AA/STF victory, or b) counter by opponent and surprise victory to them. Reminds me of another overrated wrestler that rhymes with Logan.

Because that takes away one of the most appealing things about the character... the fact that they can book him however they want to.



Who's had as many good matches over the past few years with as wide a variety of opponents as Cena?



Huh? Which wrestlers don't have signature spots?



SO like every other baby face in the history of wrestling? Sure, ditch what's worked for the last 70 or so years.



How is Hogan 'overrated'?

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Im not really sure if people boo Cena because he is booked that way, they might try to book him that way, though Im not 100 sure they do book him that way either. Personally I believe people boo him because he is a tool to be honest and too corny in this day and age.

However to say arguably the most popular active wrestler in the world the past 5 years does not know his trade is nothing short of retarded. The only trade you need to know when it comes to pro wrestling is getting over and Cena is over. I personally am not really a fan of Cena, from a character standpoint, i dont mind his matches for the most part, but I have really enjoyed a few also. With that said you cant argue with results, he is a VERY sucesfull pro wrestler.

Hit the nail on the head, this is exactly why i dont like him

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Jericho with JBL, Undertaker, Mysterio, Shawn Michaels, Jeff Hardy, Kane......



Signature spots =/= 5 moves of doom



The Rock?



Are you serious?

25 years of wrestling history is asking you the same question...

OK he can work a crowd. But is he the Chris Benoit of the 80's? No.

*facepalm*

See I agree that Cena is too corny too; but at the same time I think he's just as corny as the rock was with the rock just having better comidic timing and delivery than Cena.



I'll give you Jericho, Mysterio, Taker and sometimes Michaels (who, btw, is just as formulatic as the Rock or Cena and have also the "5 moves of doom")

But JBL, as great of a character as he was, needed always to be carried to get over. The success of that title reign (perhaps the best in the decade) was the work of Eddie Guerrero, Undertaker, Cena, Big Show, and everybody that carried JBL in the ring. That's not a bad thing, it is just what it is.

Jeff Hardy was able to get some good matches but not as good as Cena's or Jericho's. That being said; the guy was getting the best babyface reaction I've seen in a long time. He was over period but his ring work wasn't as great and/or consitent

Kane? sorry mate I can't see to remember any MOTN by Kane. He's usually very consistent at doing his thing but nothing memorable outside his matches with Taker and it's more about the build up rather than the matches.

Eddie Guerrero had the 5 moves of doom, Benoit had them, HBK is the king of the 5 moves; you can even tell when he thinks it's worth his time to steal the show cause he will do the same moonsault spot to the announcing table (usually at WM). So being formulatic doesn't mean to be bad.

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Everybody uses this so-called "Five Moves of Doom." So why do people just bash John Cena over it.

Pick any high profile WWE Superstar and you can tell what there going to do when there getting fired up in a match.

Shawn Micheals for example, one of the greatest legends in the busniess, uses the five moves of doom:
1# Atomic Drop
2# Flying Forearm to the head
3# Nips himself up from the floor
4# Elbow drop from the top rope
5# Sweet Chin Music

I mean honestly, why do people always judge Cena on this when everybody does it.

Undertaker:
1# Press Slam into Turn Buckle.
2# Big Boot
3# Leg Drop
4# Choke Slam
5# Tombstone [or sometimes Hells Gate now]

Batista
1# Clotheline
2# Spinebuster
3# Shakes the ropes
4# Batista Bomb

Triple H
1# Flying Knee
2# Knee to the face
3# Spine Buster
4# Pedigree

CM Punk
1# Irish Whip into corner
2# Knee/Bulldog Combo
3# Multiple Slaps
4# High Kick to the head
5# G.T.S

I could just keep going on and on, but you get the point.

Kane? lol



K, again, stop avoiding the question. Why's that a bad thing? Who doesn't use signature spots? And why is Cena using them a bad thing but Michaels can pretty much work the same match for 12 years and its 'ok'?



Have you watched a Rock match?



*pats Benhagen on the back and assures him it'll be OK*

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The Chris Benoit of the 80s? What the f**k does that even mean?

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towney007 wrote:



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Everyone has misread my post.

Towney asked "Who's had as many good matches over the past few years with as wide a variety of opponents as Cena?"

And I said Jericho has. And then I listed his opponents: JBL, Undertaker, Mysterio, Shawn Michaels, Jeff Hardy, Kane......

I didn't say Kane has had as many good matches as Cena has.... FFS.....

And 5 moves of doom are bad if they are always done in the same order with the same timing in the match. It doesn't matter who does it. It's bad. And Cena is probably the worse offender, followed by HBK.

*looks in pro-wrestling rule book*

. . .

Yeah your right it really hasnt worked for those two guys during their careers....

Im still waiting for an explanation of what Benoit of the 80s is lol.

I meant Hogan isn't a great technical wrestler.

Just forget I ever posted anything on this thread. It's obvious this is going nowhere. I should have known not to question Lord Cena, Ruler of the Wrestling Universe

I am so sick of hearing this phrase of someone being a 'technical wrestler' what the f*ck does it mean??? Do people not realise that being a technical wrestler is a gimmick? That's why Benoit was tagged with it!

A while back Towney looked at the whole thing of Ted DiBiase being called a 'technical wrestler' when all he was a brawler. Technical means nothing in a fake sport, it's all about the overall package of being a Pro Wrestler. It doesn't matter how many moves you can do if no-one gives a sh!t about you. (Hello TNA & ROH).

And you're allowed to question Cena, just come up with a compelling argument aside from cherry picking things that for some reason are bad when he does it but not whenever someone else does. If you just have a total inalienable dislike for the guy, then fine - say so. Don't make up nonsense reasons from your Pro Wrestling dictionary.

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Thanks to CBW for the sig, awesome dude!

You obviously didn't read my post on the previous page then.

So it has taken 2 years now for this site to finally accept my theory that there is no such thing as technical wrestling in pro wrestling.....thank god. Long live Hogan.

The thing with cenas 5 moves of doom is that they aremore boring then everyone elses imo and not even his character is ultra corny but so are his moves eg the 5 knuckle shuffle

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So true.
You also forgot cena is for kid.

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WRESTLING IS FOR KIDS....come on people lol lets be serious.

video games, action figures, belts, lunch boxes, should I go on?

Kids are the largest demographic for the show.

+1000000

People seem to forget that they started watching wresting as kids as well. Cena for instance will be praised by the now kids in the future just as we defend and praise the rock or austin and older generations praise Hogan and so on.

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Pro Wrestling is not for kids. A brand of pro wrestling can be for kids, but not all of pro wrestling. Plus "Kids" is a pretty damn big category. WWE wrestling from today(9 to teens?), WWF wrestling from the early to mid 90's(7 to 12), Attitude era WWF(13 to 17), and Argentinian Wrestling(7 or under. Look it up on Youtube) all target "kids", but all of them target kids of different ages. If John Cena had a six month feud with a mummy I guarantee you that kids over the age of 9 would not watch Raw. Hell, Hogan fighting a Mummy or the Frakenstein monster would have turned off kids back in the 80's.

Also, believe or not Kids are not the largest demographic. I think that the average age of people that was Raw is something like 34 years old according to the ratings. The majority of the people at the arenas are is still adults.


As far as Hogan and technical wrestling goes:
Hogan is not the worst person to step into a wrestling ring. He gets the crowd into the match, and he has put together some matches that even internet smarks can like(Hogan Vs Great Muta for example). But lets not kid ourselves, he is not the greatest wrestler either. If you enjoy Hogan's in ring work over someone like Ricky Steamboat(or insert any "Technical wrestler" that you want) then that's your opinion, but I would guess that most people would disagree. I don't know, call me crazy, but I do in fact prefer wrestling that is more advance than what someone with 2 months of wrestling school training can do.

A "Technical Wrestler" is a wrestler that can uses above average athletic ability, atleast semi complex pro wrestling maneuvers, and a superior knowledge of how to control the crowd's emotions, to produce an exciting match. The more exciting and entertaining a match, the better the "Technical Wrestling". Arguing that there is no such thing as a "Technical wrestler" or a great in ring wrestlers would be like arguing that The Beatles and Britney Spears are on the same level of music quality.

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Wrestling is and has been for at least the last 30 years, been marketed primarily to kids. They are easily the biggest and most lucrative demographic because of their ability to produce (on average) triple the revenue of other demographics. No one comes close.

At literal definition, there is no such thing as a 'technical wrestler'. John Cena cutting a promo is no-less 'technical' pro wrestling than Dragon Kid throwing a headlock. However, if you were to slap the term onto someone, its usually a role issued by commentators to describe characters that use frequent holds and are mostly submission based. That's not always been the case, as people like Ted Dibiase and Triple H, both of whom wouldn't be considered much more than brawlers, have been labeled as such. At best its an ambiguous term that doesn't really have any real meaning of any kind.

As for Hogan, he was very good, even from an in-ring standpoint. His run through Minnesota and his strong first run with the WWF title had some pretty great stuff from him. His work primarily in New Japan is probably his most noteworthy stuff both in the mid-80's and in the early 90's. While I wouldn't put him up there with a Ric Flair or a Steamboat caliber wrestler in-ring, he's probably at the top of that 'next tier' and by in large, very underrated in the ring.

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I know brother. I was just being condescending.

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If there's no such thing as a "technical wrestler", then there's no such thing as a "brawler".

They're both generalisations of the in-ring characteristics of wrestlers.

I guess you forgot to read the very next line. Or even... the rest of that sentence.

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He was referring to "technical wrestler", not "brawler". I do read posts when I quote them, funnily enough.

^^^ balls man, he's got balls! i like this guy...

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I guess the point is it seems to be some nerdy wrestling thing to consider "technical" wrestlers better than all other styles. It makes no sense considering ALL THE MOVES ARE ALLOWED TO BE DONE. The only reason you can choke slam someone is because the LET YOU the only reason you can slap on a sharp shooter is because they LET YOU. You can choose any moves you want it doesnt matter. You want technical wrestling watch the NCAAs. A Boston crab is no more technical than a power bomb. Its not harder to do its not more pain full its all entertainment. Its all Fn Fake why do people take it so serious?

Hornswoggle. God he is overused!

Apparently he's one of the top merchandise sellers; if that's the case then he's being used alright.

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^^^Horney's little pseudo-feud with DX was and is probably one of the most entertaining things on WWe TV since... since... humm... in quite some time!

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